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Time for a little thread resurrection.

The case that this thread originally described specifically led to action in the Indiana legislature. The Legislature beefed up the civil immunity for self-defense portions.

Those new protections have now been tested in court.

In 2020, at the hour of 3am, a man by the name of Rednour tried to force entry to at home occupied by a couple with the last name of Ping, who did not know Rednour. He first tried breaking down the front door and then went to the back door. He broke a glass window next to the back door and stuck his head up to the opening. Husband Ping warned Rednour that Ping was armed and would shoot if Rednour did not stop. Rednour uttered those immortal last words, “Then you’re going to have to shoot me, b****.” Ping obliged and called police to remove the dead body on his back step. The police investigated and declined to pursue any charges against the Pings.

A female with last name Rednour sued the Pings claiming that dead Rednour was simply requesting to enter the house, and Ping wrongfully killed him. The Pings asked for summary judgment in their favor. The judge recognized the suit was barking nonsense, granted summary judgment dismissing the suit, AND in accordance with Indiana’s new law awarded attorney’s fees and costs to the Pings.

I cannot find the judge’s order online, but there is a photograph a copy of it at the Facebook link below.

https://www.facebook.com/The2AProject?_ ... =%3C%2CP-R

Yes, I don't think there was any settlement by either Kystie or the DNR. This was a tantrum dressed up as a lawsuit.

twomillenium wrote: ↑Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:27 pm

ELB wrote: ↑Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:46 am

rtschl wrote:Though it still may require an attorney if civil case filed, it really makes me thankful for Texas and CPRC 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY.
A defendant who uses force or deadly force that is justified in Chapter 9, Penal Code, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant's use of force or deadly force, as applicable.

I like Florida's civil immunity better. If you are sued and win because you were engaged in self-defense/defense of another, you are entitled to reasonable legal fees, including income compensation.

This still does not mean that a lawsuit can not be filed. ...

Didn’t say it couldn’t be filed. Just that I like Florida’s law better.

From the gofundme site for Kystie Jaehnen:

Those that are following my updates I have received word that the lawsuit has been dropped and there is no chance of refiling. Per Kystie’s request the remaining funds will be held by the Laughery valley FOP Lodge 146 benevolent fund as well as a donation to St Jude’s Children’s Hospital. I will be shutting down the account tomorrow. I want to thank everyone for their support of the police and Kystie. Also check out House Bill 1284 in Indiana and if you don’t have this provision in your state I would suggest you copy it and give to your representative. God Bless

https://www.gofundme.com/kystie039s-bes ... orters-v5b

Indiana Legislators are also considering a beefed up civil immunity during current session.

BBYC wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:41 pm ...
Maybe the kind where the thin blue line won't pay for the lawyer to defend the woman who saved one of their lives?

The GoFundMe page for her was started by a police officer who didn't even know her.

PriestTheRunner wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:34 pm Ya, they are named together in the suit. Not really sure why they didn't pursue the defense together....

Because their cases are not the same, and both being defendants doesn't necessarily make them genuine allies. Their defenses might be very different. For example the DNR lawyers may argue that the DNR and the conservation officer had no input or control over the woman's decision to shoot and therefore are in no way responsible for the subject's death, and further therefore should be dropped from the case entirely (leaving the woman as the sole defendant).

Because the DNR is the deep-pockets defendant in this case, I suspect they are the real target. However, the plaintiff can't get to the DNR (especially with the conspiracy claim) except through the conservation officer and the woman who defended him*. So they sue all three, allege conspiracy and whatnot, and try to put the defendants in the position of having to settle to make the case go away. Again, one or the other of the defendants may choose to settle separately, whereupon the plaintiff's would agree to drop them from the case and focus on the surviving defendant.

*Also, I believe that in a civil case such as this one, the plaintiff can't later add, or will find it hard to add, defendants to the case, so they sue everybody even remotely connected. That's why in medical malpractice cases the lawyers go through the medical files and sue most every name they find. It's better for the plaintiff to make defendants show why they are not connected to the case upfront, rather than for the plaintiffs to have to argue later why they should be added. Maybe we have a civil lawyer who can chime in on the correctness of this.

This is from one of my posts earlier in this thread, but since questions about Indiana law on liability for self-defense/defense of others have come up again:

ELB wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:08 am
Indiana law does appear to have protection for people who defend themselves, according to the woman's lawyer:

"Where a person uses reasonable force in self-defense or the defense of a third person they cannot be held, quote, 'in any legal jeopardy whatsoever,' end quote. And any legal jeopardy whatsoever unquestionably includes civil liability or being a defendant in a civil lawsuit," said Relford.

...and he hopes to get the case dismissed early on.
http://www.wlwt.com/article/women-don-t ... c/19864383

Scuttlebutt on Indiana forum is that the family could not get a local lawyer to take the case so went to Cincinnati to find a firm that would.

Once again, the woman's GoFundMe page for legal costs is here, if you are so inclined: https://www.gofundme.com/kystie039s-best-defense

ETA: IC 35-41-3-2:

"No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary."

Updates and Scuttlebutt:

The plaintiff's initial filing can be found in an article at this link: https://www.eaglecountryonline.com/news ... n-officer/

What's interesting is that the plaintiff is not only contending unlawful death, but that the woman and the conservation officer actually conspired to deprive the deceased of his constitutional rights. (!) From the articles I read, the CO did not even know the woman was there until he heard the gun shot.

21. Defendant Michael C. Powell and Defendant Kystie Jaehnen reached an understanding.
engaged in a sequence of events or course of conduct, and otherwise agreed and conspired
together t0 violate the constitutional rights 0f the Plaintiff.

22. Each defendant did reach this understanding and agreement, and did engage in this course
of conduct with the mutual purpose, objective, and knowledge that it would deprive Justin
Holland of his rights. privileges and immunities, as guaranteed by the Constitution and laws of
the United States.

23. Further, said conspiracy/joint action violated Plaintiffs' Fourth Amendment rights, under
color of law. in violation 0f 42 U.S.C. Section 1983‘ and was a direct and proximate cause 0f
their pain. suffering and mental anguish. Acting in Furtherance of this plan and conspiracy. each
0f the Defendants committed overt acts, including, but not limited to an unjustifiable beating and
false arrest as fully alleged in paragraphs

Amazing.

Indiana law does appear to have protection for people who defend themselves, according to the woman's lawyer:

"Where a person uses reasonable force in self-defense or the defense of a third person they cannot be held, quote, 'in any legal jeopardy whatsoever,' end quote. And any legal jeopardy whatsoever unquestionably includes civil liability or being a defendant in a civil lawsuit," said Relford.

...and he hopes to get the case dismissed early on.
http://www.wlwt.com/article/women-don-t ... c/19864383

Scuttlebutt on Indiana forum is that the family could not get a local lawyer to take the case so went to Cincinnati to find a firm that would.

Once again, the woman's GoFundMe page for legal costs is here, if you are so inclined: https://www.gofundme.com/kystie039s-best-defense

ETA: IC 35-41-3-2:

"No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary."

Grundy1133 wrote:

ELB wrote:

Grundy1133 wrote: I guess that raises another question... would it be wise to invest in concealed carry insurance?

There are a lot of posts on that too. Heh. Good luck.

I'm not exactly a rich fellow. I'm actually unemployed at the moment... So paying thousands of lawyer fees doesn't sound very fun to me.

Sorry to hear. The "heh" is because "concealed carry insurance" and similar products have been a...lively...topic of discussion in the past. More soe than 9mm vs .45ACP. If you search this forum you should find lots of discussion about it.

Grundy1133 wrote: I guess that raises another question... would it be wise to invest in concealed carry insurance?

There are a lot of posts on that too. Heh. Good luck.

Grundy1133 wrote:What I don't understand is if the court found her within her legal rights of self defense (and defending the LEO) then how on Earth can the family of the criminal sue the woman who was protecting the LEO and herself? If I was the judge I'd just laugh and dismiss the case...

Grundy1133 wrote:
Texas is a "Stand your ground" state. Is that not enough? (I know this incident happened in IN but i'm just referencing texas since thats where I live.)

The "Stand your ground" law really doesn't have anything to do with it.

So far a court has not found her within or without her legal rights. The DA simply declined to prosecute her. Under the constitution her opponents can not be barred from filing suit, they deserve their time in court just like anyone else. BUT, in Texas under Texas's civil immunity clause she should not be not be held liable IF the civil court judge finds that she acted in self-defense/defense of another. If the suit were filed in Texas, a judge would have to make the determination, and I'm sure her attorney would press for this early, bringing up the DA's decision not to prosecute.

I think Indiana actually does have a similar civil immunity law, but am not sure, haven't had time to look it up.

There are more detailed discussions on Texas's civil immunity law on this forum, it may take some searching to find them. I don't think anyone on this forum has ever heard of a successful lawsuit against someone who defended themselves in accordance with Texas law.

rtschl wrote:Though it still may require an attorney if civil case filed, it really makes me thankful for Texas and CPRC 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY.
A defendant who uses force or deadly force that is justified in Chapter 9, Penal Code, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant's use of force or deadly force, as applicable.

I like Florida's civil immunity better. If you are sued and win because you were engaged in self-defense/defense of another, you are entitled to reasonable legal fees, including income compensation.

As I said, the dead suspect's family is suing the woman and the police agency involved (in this case the Indiana Department of Natural Resources). Even without the state being involved, the woman may have liability insurance that the plaintiff's could tap, and I think this would not be known until the suit is initiated. Monetarily I think the DNR is the real target.

Also, no matter how violent/stupid/drug-addled/insane the person who ends up dead through his own criminal action is, almost invariably his family can't accept that he had any responsibility and has to find someone else to blame. So there is an ego issue involved, they can't accept reality that their child/sibling/parent/relative really was not a very good person, they have to warp the rest of reality to conform to their views and relieve the cognitive dissonance.

See also "multiple genders".

If you want to do something about it, she has a GoFundMe page. Kick in a few dollars. Help set an example that lawsuits like this should be/are unwinnable.

https://www.thedcregister.com/news-late ... ting-death

In Feb 2017 a woman called in a suspicious person who had partially blocked her driveway and a street lane with a pickup truck. Conservation officer responded, determined the male driver was acting erratically and was impaired, and went to cuff the male. A fight broke out which the officer started losing, as the male suspect was larger and stronger. The suspect apparently tried to get to the officer's handgun.

The adult daughter of the woman who called police saw what was happening, and came out with her own gun and shot the suspect in the upper shoulder, which succeeded in stopping the attack. The mother and daughter then administered CPR to the man the daughter shot, but he later died.

The dead suspect turned out to have methamphetamine and other drugs in his system as well as some lesser criminal offenses and arrests. The DA investigated and declined to pursue any charges against the daughter.

So far so good.


But now, a little over a year later, the family of the dead man have filed a wrongful death suit against the daughter and police agencies. One of the local police officers who is president of the local FOP chapter has launched a GoFundMe page to help the daughter with her legal defenses. The officer correctly notes that the police officers being sued will be covered by the State and the FOP, but the citizen who came to an officer' aid is on her own.

The daughter is being represented by Guy Relford. As well as being a lawyer he is also a firearms instructor and a 2A activist. He does a radio show called The Gun Guy on Indianapolis radio station WIBC, which has been a popular radio station since probably before I was a kid in Indiana 50 years ago. So I think she has decent representation with knowledge of in ins and outs of self-defense (of third party), but funds to pay for it would help.

Story: https://www.themaven.net/bluelivesmatte ... 1w/?full=1

GoFundMe page: https://www.gofundme.com/kystie039s-best-defense